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JH: I wanted to ask you about your Joan Houlihan poems - the poem you quoted, "honed jewel in hand", is the poem that I had in mind, too! A very fortunate error, the replacement of "i" with "Joan Houlihan". In procedure, the trick is a topic. I don't mind explaining mechanics at all. A question could be, is it useful that a poet present an explanation of procedure together with the poem? If an explanation is provided with the poem, the explanation becomes part of the reader's pre-existing store of information, and then it is no different than when a poem references Caligula without any explanation and the reader already knows who Caligula is. A procedural poem presented to the reader with an explanation can be read as a poem without obtrusive procedure, as when a reader acquainted with sonnets reads a sonnet without being distracted by the sonnet form (with any variation from a traditional sonnet form being noted as a variation and not an invention). However, since a poem is defined, partially, by its self-containment, an explanation, which is defined, partially, as what comes from outside the explained, is unnecessary. The series as a poem: elements of the poem being made clear by precursors intrinsic to the poem: my poem (entry?) P: GRANDUNCLES OF THE CATTLETRADE is explained by (though may be read without reference to anything, even the English language) reference to the main procedure of the GRANDUNCLES OF THE CATTLETRADE series, a sentence of a set number of words (not counting connectors such as "eke", "&", "of", "n", etc) followed by a sentence that is the previous sentence with the first word removed and a new word added to the end (example: "megarynchos of creallocate of sprnyde of lyreams of padmirme / creallocate of sprnyde of lyreams of padmirme of hierxoti") and so on, ending with ellipsis points to indicate the interminability of the poem:

P: GRANDUNCLES OF THE CATTLETRADE

Virginia Virginia Virginia Virginia Virginia Virginia Virginie
Virginia Virginia Virginia Virginia Virginia Virginia Virginia
Virginia Virginia Virginia Virginia Virginia Virginia Virginia
Virginie Virginia Virginia Virginia Virginia Virginia Virginia
Virginia Virginia Virginia Virginia Virginia Virginia Virginia
Virginia Virginia Virginia Virginia Virginia Virginia Virginia
Virginia Virginia Virginia Virginia Virginia Virginia Virginia
Virginia Virginia Virginia Virginia Virginia Virginia Virginia
Virginia Virginia Virginia Virginia Virginia Virginia Virginia
Virginia Virginia Virginia Virginia Virginia Virginia Virginia
Virginia Virginia Virginia Virginia Virginia Virginia Virginia
Virginia Virginia Virginia Virginia Virginia Virginia Virginia
Virginia Virginia Virginia Virginia Virginia Virginia Virginia
Virginia Virginia Virginia Virginia Virginia Virginia Virginia
Virginia Virginia Virginia Virginia Virginia Virginia Virginia
Virginia Virginia Virginia Virginia Virginia Virginia Virginia
Virginia Virginia Virginia Virginia Virginia Virginia Virginia
Virginia Virginia Virginia Virginia Virginia Virginia Virginia
Virginia Virginia Virginia Virginia Virginia Virginia Virginia
Virginia Virginia Virginia Virginia Virginia Virginia Virginia...


In P: GRANDUNCLES OF THE CATTLETRADE, the last word in line one and the first word in line four is "Virginie". According to the main GRANDUNCLES OF THE CATTLETRADE procedure, "Virginia" is shown to be a connector as well as a mobile word through the placements of "Virginie". "Virginie" needs to move three places in order to get from the position of the last word to the first word. Here's an illustration, using different words, and a connector different from any of these words, instead of all "Virginia":

fish of dog of cat of Virginie
dog of cat of Virginie of mouse
cat of Virginie of mouse of bird
Virginie of mouse of bird of rock


The initial appearance of "Virginie" as the last word in a line of words that are "Virginia" shows that a new word has been added, something not easily seen in prior GRANDUNCLES OF THE CATTLETRADE poems. "Virginie" makes two appearances, its first and its final, in order to show the true appearance, movement, and disappearance throughout the entire poem of the "Virginia" words. The procedure animates words that are static on the page, and differentiates "Virginia" as mobile word from "Virginia" as connector. It is possible to present all 140 words as "Virginia" and present an explanation of the poem (though this would lose the highlighting of the final word in the first line), but to use "Virginie" in two positions refers to the poem GRANDUNCLES OF THE CATTLETRADE (or, to put it another way, whether synonymously or more accurately I don't know, the GRANDUNCLES OF THE CATTLETRADE poems) itself. In addition to speaking more on your Joan Houlihan poems, could you please say a few words about your superb poem "Anglo Saxon Purity"


Marcel Duchamp spoke to me
during the course of the Second world

humans could not budge because
they had webbed jointless limbs

the science of apportionment
division discontinuity

the word “art” interests me
very much if it comes from Sanscrit

as I'm no prophet my job is making
windows where there were once walls

a poeticized culture would not
insist we find the real wall behind


AHB: Joan Houlihan's omnipresence attracted me, when I saw my mistake. one thinks that critics desire omnipresence, as arbiter or whatever. and just the visual insistence of the name. which I've been using in at least 20 poems, probably more. I have no particular animus against Houlihan, except that she's one more critic as distancing factor. me, I would like to get closer to the poem, any poem, not driven away. I've said afore that Jackson Mac Low's procedural notes are part of the poem, and think likewise of Steve Benson. those come to mind immediately. when people read publicly, they often detail the provenance of the work, and it seems essential, at least partly (partial essence, hah!) to do so. Pound and Eliot were my 1st examples of poets who didn't explain allusions and references. and as the young writer who wanted things clear, that was quite aggravating. their assumption, or demand, was that I be well read (in their curriculum). which I guess I proceeded to attempt. not so much for their sake, but that they identified useful centers of concern. your GRANDUNCLE poems grow more interesting to me as each one appears. they make me want to change my routine. which I am resistant to, even as I feel the gravity pull. GRANDUNCLE P reminds me of a poem a friend wrote in high school: “Tale of the Roving Orange”. it consisted of line after line of the word 'banana', except at about the center of the textblock was the word 'orange'. kind of a take off of the knock knock joke (orange you glad I didn't say banana?). seeing your poem made me just about crow, because the process had boiled down to such seeming simplicity, yet a pregnant one. I wonder if you know The Mauberly Series by Aaron Kunin, which can be downloaded here, at ubu.com. he uses a limited vocabulary derived from Pound's series. Kunin is something of a magister, I think. I've taken to Joan Houlihan as a point of obsession. it's good (to me) that she's in Massachusetts, living a couple of towns away (no, I haven't stalked her). local as haven, perhaps. that the gravesites of Thoreau, Emerson and Hawthorn are maybe 3 miles away has a deep effect on me, and Walden Pond some 5 miles. so she works better for me than, say, Harold Bloom, Margorie Perloff (crap, did I misspell her name?), Helen Vendler or whoever might be propounding. perhaps indicative of my commitment (I hope not!), I've had to bend my brain to remember writing "Anglo Saxon Purity". I think the words were all taken from quotes at the beginning of chapters of Trickster Makes the World by Lewis Hyde. I think I took the first line of each quote in the book. I have to read more John Cage, because I know my procedure lacks buddhist purity, there is something wonderful about his willingness to commit to randomness. what I did was semi random. I'm super hankering for Jeff Harrison books, which brings up the big wtf. you've amassed a wicked pile of material, and many others are likewise surfeit with great work that isn't seen enough. my wife wants to design a chapbook for a series of poems I've done (my Mt Everest poems), she has a great vision for its look and visuals. to do it, tho, needs money and it needs time. I believe in DYI (side note: check out Shanna Compton's useful, and let us saying giving (she seems like an angel in gthe nervy poetry world), assistance here) but, you know, logistics. what's to be done? I mean the internet is good, righto, but it aint enough...